Zero Carb Interview: Dr. Paul Mabry, M.D.


1. How long have you been eating a Zero Carb (No Plant Foods) diet?

407 days.

2. What motivated you to try this way of eating? Weight? Health?

My weight loss stalled on a Low Carb High Fat Ketogenic diet, eating a mix of plant foods and animal foods. Then I saw the Andersen Family Interview that you posted here last year, and a light went on in my head.

3. How long did it take you to adapt to a Zero Carb diet, both physically and psychologically?

Since I was already very low carb, I didn’t notice much change when I switched to meat only. I did continue to crave many of my old plant foods for up to 6 months, but I don’t get the cravings any more even when around my old favorites.

4. What books or people were most influential in guiding you to this way of eating?

I have to list “The Big Fat Surprise” by Nina Teicholz as my current favorite and I think anybody who is thinking of going on an all meat diet should consider her evidence in the decision. I was really brought to low carb by Gary Taubes’ book “Good Calories, bad Calories” which is of course a classic. Unless a person has a scientific background they might be better served by reading his “follow up” book “Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It” which is really a condensation of the first book with a simplification of some of the technical language and a little bit of new information. I also like the work of Dr. Stephen Phinney whose book “The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living” is a jewel.

As for the meat only side of it I would recommend the 2 videos that I think clearly prove humans to be primarily evolved to eat meat which are first “The Search for the Perfect Human Diet” which I just found out can be watched on Hulu for free at this URL

And a lecture by Dr. Barry Groves available free on YouTube at

And finally a wonderful lecture by Georgia Ede MD on “The Risks and Benefits of Eating Plants” available on YouTube at .

5. Do you eat only meat, or do you include eggs, cheese, and cream in your diet?

I eat meat, eggs, aged cheese, and butter. I do not drink any form of milk or cream. Though I think a moderate amount of cream is ok, it does have a carb per ounce and some protein so it can be “overdone” and it’s slight sweet taste could be a problem for some.

6. What percentage of your diet is beef versus other types of meats?

99% of the meat I eat is beef. It’s cheap available and the highest in fat percentage of the commonly available meats and I tolerate it very well. I occasionally have some pork and once every 2-3 months wind up eating some chicken. Fish is expensive, relatively low in fat and often of dubious origin (farm raised on a high omega-6 diet). Though I feel wild fish are quite healthy if supplemented with enough animal fat like butter or tallow, the logistics of acquiring it would require too much of my time and financial resources and I am doing fine on beef. I am planning to try my had a fishing at some point here in Galveston, TX and eat what I catch but between my new career as a Voice Actor and my RV and Motorcycle touring I just haven’t found the time to get out there.

7. When you eat beef, do you cook it rare, medium, or well done?

I rarely eat steak, usually only at restaurants when I’m traveling or eating out with friends, but when I do, I prefer it rare. I buy 3 lb chubs of 27% fat hamburger from my local Kroger which fortunately for me regularly puts them on sale for $5.99 to draw customers. I go every day that week and get my 2 allowed chubs and freeze them. I make a casserole with 2 lbs of hamburger mixed with 8 beaten eggs and laid in a casserole dish liberally slathered with butter then I cover it with 4 cups (about 1 lb) of grated Aged Cheddar cheese which I regularly get from Kroger in 2 lb blocks for $7.49 sometimes on sale for $6.49 (I stock up and freeze). I bake this at 325 for 30 minutes and cut into 6 squares. I eat 1 square every day for lunch. For those of you who are interested, this gives me 21 grams of protein in the hamburger, 9 grams of protein in the eggs and 18 grams of protein in the cheese for a total of 48 grams of protein at lunch.

For dinner I almost always eat about 10 ounces of a combination of all beef sausage and hotdogs. Both contain Offal which is “organ meat” which is higher in vitamins and minerals than steak, plus I eat another 3 ounces of Aged Cheddar Cheese. There are 40 grams of protein in the sausage and hot dogs and 21 grams in the cheese for a total of 61 grams of protein in the evening meal and 109 grams of protein for the day. Which is less than 1.5 kg of protein per kg of ideal body weight for me.

8. Do you add extra fat to your meat? (i.e. butter, lard, tallow)

When I have to go to a restaurant I always carry a small tub of unsalted whipped butter and add ¼ to ¾ teaspoon of it like it was whipped cream to every bite of any steak or other meat or fish I might consume.

9. Do you limit your meat consumption or do you eat until satisfied?

I have 3 rules: 1) I have 2 meals a day spaced 6 hours apart (usually 2PM and 8PM which works for me but I think any 6 hour or even 8 hour window would be fine); 2) I limit my protein to less than 1.5 grams per kilogram of ideal body weight; and 3) I try to be sure 70-80% of the calories from each meal come primarily from Saturated, monounsaturated and omega-3 fatty acids, avoiding omega-6 fatty acids as much as possible.

10. Do you eat liver or other organ meats? If so, how often?

Regularly in the form of hotdogs and sausage, think “Liverwurst”

11. Do you consume bone broth? If so, how often?

No, but I think it’s probably fine and quite healthy. Just remember a cup contains 7 grams of protein so someone who is a metabolically damaged as me would not tolerate “going crazy” with it.

12. How many meals do you eat per day on average?

Twice, spaced 6 hours apart, which gives me a daily Intermittent fast of 18 hours.

13. How much meat do you eat per day on average?

15 ounces of meat and sausage, 6 ounces of cheese and 1.3 eggs (or 4 ounces of egg)

14. Do you eat grass-fed/pasture-raised meat, or regular commercially produced meat?

Can’t afford grass-fed, but would eat it if I could. I’m retired on a fixed pension and love to travel and have a large house to maintain along with many hobbies. I choose to spend my money on that. I think the advantage of grass-fed, organic meat is highly over-rated, but someday when we have the data (probably not in my lifetime), I may be proven wrong.

15. Do you drink any beverages besides water? (i.e. coffee, tea)

I only drink water and carbonated mineral water.

16. Do you use salt?

The only thing I add a touch of salt to is the baking soda I use to brush my teeth. I do not add salt to any food.

17. Do you use spices?

Many of the sausages I eat have spices in them. Otherwise I don’t use them.

18. Do you take any supplements?

None since starting ZC 407 days ago.

19. How much money do you spend on food each month?

My lunch casserole costs $1.70 a serving. My 10 ounces hot dogs and sausage in the evening average $2.85 (I can often do better by stocking up. The Nolan Ryan All beef Frankfurters I usually eat are normally $4.99/14 oz but occasionally they go on sale for $1.99 with unlimited quantities, that’s when my freezer fills up). I can regularly find all beef sausage for $4/pound sometimes cheaper on sale. And even at regular price (which I rarely pay), my 3 ounces of Aged cheddar cheese in the evening costs $0.70. I have included the cost of the cheese and eggs in the casserole in the cost of the casserole so my total daily cost is $1.70 for casserole for lunch and $2.85 for my 10 ounces of sausage/hot dogs and $0.70 for the cheese in the evening. For a total daily cost of $5.25 or in a 30 day month $157.50.

When I’m out I almost always eat at McDonalds where I get a triple cheeseburger no bun, just meat and cheese which is 30 grams of protein, and off the breakfast a la carte menu – now served all day – I order a “round egg” (some McDonalds will only serve a “folded egg” after breakfast time), a sausage patty and a slice of white cheddar cheese which comes to 15 grams of protein for a total of 45 grams of protein for the meal which is $4.95 where I live.

20. Do you have any tips for making this diet more affordable?

Stock up when you find meat on sale and throw it in a freezer.

21. Do you exercise regularly? If so, how often and how vigorously?

I play tennis, both singles and doubles 2-5 times a week. Once a week I lift weights using the “Body by Science” protocol by Dr. Doug McGuff. More on that can be found on my website page here:

22. What benefits have you experienced since beginning a Zero Carb diet? (i.e. recovery from illness, overall health, body composition, exercise performance, hormonal, mental or psychological, etc.)

I think the biggest benefit is the self-respect and self-confidence I’ve gained since returning to my “high school” weight. I was fat for most of my life and that’s kind of like being a leper in our society. Most fat people feel like they have to be “extra nice” and suck up to people or no one would want to be around them. We’re always trying to do that “little extra” like pick up the check or work on that holiday instead of the other guy despite the fact we worked the last 3 holidays. Fat people often become “door mats” to try to get people to like them, I certainly did. This is beginning to fade (though not completely). It’s not that I now want fat people to act like that toward me, though I often detect them doing so, it’s just that I like to demand equal status to anyone I meet now and am very less likely to back down in an argument than when I was fat. I feel good about myself when I walk into a room. You can’t put a price on that.

My highest weight was around 280 lbs, and I am currently now at 180 lbs. You can read the details of the weight loss I have experienced by following first a low carb and now Zero Carb on my website here:


My tennis game has improved. I wasn’t really sick or arthritic when I was fat so nothing to improve there.

I did have a recurring skin condition since childhood called hand eczema (dishidrotic eczema) where 2-3 times a year I would have a terrible itchy, blistering red rash break out on my hands and sometimes my feet and last for 4-6 weeks. I have not had an outbreak since going low carb and grain-free 4 years ago, so I can’t totally attribute it to Zero Carb.

Also there has been a dramatic improvement in my toenails which, since about the age of 30, have been thickened yellow and crumbly, a condition called tenia unguium (fungal toenail infection). This has almost completely cleared up and my toenails though a few still have some thickening which may be from scarring of the growth plates over the years have no yellow color and are not crumbly. You can actually see the pink flesh through them again which totally surprised me. Again the improvement predated Zero Carb, but has continued to improve on Zero Carb.

Also I have multiple aging spots common in people of English/Irish ancestry called Seborrheic Kerratosis which are raised, flat, usually round, moles with a “ground glass” texture that easily scrape off. Mine seem to be regressing in size and I am not developing new ones.

23. What do you enjoy most about eating a Zero Carb diet?

The simplicity. It frees me up to do so many other things not having to worry about preparing some fancy, exotic meal. I have begun a career as a voice actor producing Audiobooks in a 5’X7’ studio I built with my own hands. My first Audiobook “Escape from Aliens”, read under my “stage name” of Somerset Hamilton is now selling well on and in the iTunes store.

I had a blast doing the voices of a Navy SEAL and a female USAF Captain who get captured by aliens and encounter 18 other captive aliens and 5 alien captors all of whose voices I had to create. Not to mention the ship computer and 3 starport controllers.

I do the work on my own car and actually have a video I made on Replacing the Camshaft Position Sensor that has had 65,000 views on YouTube .

I try to play the piano as much as possible . I did a Music video of my wife and autistic daughter feeding the ducks at our old house in Bayou Vista, TX with our cat having other plans in “Silent Movie” style and did the accompaniment on the piano myself totally improvising the Cole Porter song from memory using no music.

I’ve restored a 2003 Honda Shadow Motorcycle and have added a 140 dB horn, LED headlight, hard saddle bags with a cigarette lighter plug and 4 port USB charger. Still to come is a hard trunk and I am planning to take it on a 10 day solo motorcycle odyssey to New Mexico and Utah in July staying with friends and using a 1 man tent to camp in National and State parks along the way.

I’m currently planning to start “section hiking” the Appalachian trail next summer. I plan to start in Georgia and do 10 days eating only Pemmican and see how far I get then start there the next time I can find time to do some more hiking.

I was playing a lot of tennis tournament and actually got my ranking in my age group up to #5 in the state but I’ve cut back a lot as they have raised the entry fees to $38 for most tournaments and I just have other things I want to spend my money on like a ultralight 1 man tent and a big drone to fly with and take pictures of the Pelicans here in Galveston for a music video about them I’m thinking about creating. I have been a photographer all my life with my specialty of scenic landscapes.

I know it seems like this has little to do with your question but here is where I feel it fits in. I think the cause of the obesity epidemic in America is due to 4 major problems:

First, poor food choices. I think people choose high carbohydrate, low fat foods which in and of themselves are fattening (ZC solves this problem).

Second is “Addictive Eating”. Sugar and probably wheat and other plants like tobacco, coffee and tea are as addictive as cocaine or heroin. In my opinion these should be eliminated from a person’s diet because the best way to beat addiction to a substance is to give it up completely.

Third, habitual eating due to boredom. I think a lot of Americans are just bored because they are stuck in jobs they don’t like which don’t stimulate their minds or allow them to be creative. I think many people “console themselves” with sugar and big meals they don’t really want due to boredom and the stress of their situation. A Zero Carb diet makes it easier not to do this.

And Fourth, bad eating habits. All grazing animals are fat. Most Americans I know who are fat are “grazers” they have little snacks here and there and always get their 3 meals a day in. I think 1 or 2 meals a day is a much better eating schedule. Tim Noakes MD who I love recently got into trouble for saying the same thing.

In short if a person wants to avoid boredom they need to find a job or at least a hobby that lets them feel they’re being creative and have some control over their situation. Zero Carb, because it works so well with my twice a day eating schedule, allows me the freedom to do all the things I do without obsessing about food, riding the blood sugar rollercoaster that oftens give carb eaters the morning and mid afternoon drowsies unless they carb up again.

24. Do you have any advice for someone who is just beginning a Zero Carb diet?

One thing I’ve learned in my life is that consistency and discipline are the keys to success. I didn’t get to be a “Full Bird” Colonel in the Army without them. If you fall off the wagon, get right back on, don’t give up. Keep your eye on the goal. Hang a dress or pair of jeans you’d like to get back into where you’ll see it several times daily. Hang out with people on Facebook who are having success with ZC like you and me.

25. Are your friends and family supportive of your Zero Carb lifestyle? If not, how do you handle this?

Most of my friends and family are strongly addicted to sugar and a few to alcohol. I get the same treatment on the subject as if you were to tell your close college friend who you happen to meet at a reunion and who has become a daily alcohol drinker and is quite happy with it how good you feel because you’ve stopped drinking for a year, a lot of “polite smiles, let’s change the subject”. I think everyone should expect that. Only when they get desperate and see your success will people start asking you questions and become open to advice. You should expect the usual attacking questions when you first begin, “what about your Cholesterol?”, “Where will you get your vitamins”…etc. These fade over time with close family and friends and acceptance has replaced it with most of my close friends and family. I have convinced a few to try low carb, but not Zero Carb.

26. Is there anything you would like share about this way of eating that I have not already asked you?

I’ve probably run my mouth too much already. First, I’d like to say to anyone following a Zero Carb diet: I hate seeing my 11 years of college, medical school and Family practice medical residency training wasted. Please feel free to tag me on Facebook in any of the Zero Carb groups if there is a medical issue or other issue you think I can help with.

For those Zero Carb groups that do not recommend limiting protein, I would say that if you have not damaged your liver and pancreas yet with years of carb, sugar or alcohol abuse, I think this approach can work fine and is certainly much healthier than any plant based diet and works very well for many people. I severely damaged my system with 61 years of carbohydrate, sugar (I was addicted to candy bars) and a little alcohol (never really a long term problem for me).

My medical opinion is that if you’re not losing the weight you want, your triglycerides don’t come down under 80 and your Hemoglobin A1c doesn’t come down under 5.5% after 6-12 months on the unlimited protein program you should consider restricting protein as I do and follow the markers I indicated and see if they don’t move in the right direction.

But I don’t claim to be infallible or all knowing and I’m not some kind of power tripper who wants to manage other people’s lives. Whatever your stance on Zero Carb, I will support you. And in forums where this is an issue, I will try to restrict myself addressing the Zero Carb medical question without bringing up the protein issue, as I know what a hot button issue it can become. Both unlimited protein Zero Carb and Keto Zero Carb have so much more in common than differences that I hate to see all the anger this issue can generate.

I hope we will all be able to begin treating each other with respect like we were friends but Methodists and Presbyterians having similar but slightly different dogmas but respecting each other and trying to be considerate about any differences.


Please visit my “Interviews” and “Testimonials” pages linked at the top of this website to read the stories of other short and long term Zero Carb veterans.

If you are interested in meeting others who practice an All-Meat diet, please feel free to join us in the Facebook group “Principia Carnivora” for support.

Dr. Mabry also has his own Facebook group now called Zero Carb Doc.

Lex Rooker: The Unique Healing Power of an All-Raw Zero Carb Diet


Editor’s note: This testimonial was originally published on a raw paleo forum website. However, it has since been removed for unknown reasons. I contacted Lex via email and asked him if I could please re-publish it on my blog, and he gave me his permission to do so. As someone who only benefits by eating his meat and other animal foods raw, I feel his story is simply too valuable to get lost in the ethers.

Health Problems From the Start & Conventional Treatments

It seems I’ve always had some sort of health problem. I was born in 1951. My mother had no breast milk so I had to be bottle fed. I was prone to colic and my thymus gland (a baby’s 1st defense against infection), didn’t shrink at the rate the doctors thought it should so they decided to intervene. At that time the doctors thought that radiation would cure everything so they gave radiation treatments to my lower throat area. This did cause the thymus gland to shrink, however, it also caused tumors to grow on my thyroid gland by the time I was age six. The tumors were removed, they were said to be benign so everyone thought that was that. Unfortunately, the tumors returned when I was 10 and they had to be removed again – this time they took half the thyroid too. Problem apparently solved.

By age 15 I had cystic acne, which again was treated with radiation. It did seem to help the acne, but 20 years later I started developing skin cancer lesions on the areas of my face that had been exposed to the radiation. To this day I see a dermatologist every six months to have the lesions frozen off. And I now refuse all forms of “preventive diagnostic radiation” like annual dental X-rays.

I was a heavy milk drinker as I was told by parents and doctors that milk was important for health. The more dairy products I ate the worse my acne and I had constant post nasal drip and phlegm. This got remarkably better when I gave up dairy, but I digress…

As a teenager I started getting migraine headaches. I would get at least 3 headaches a month, and the pain was so bad that at times I just wanted to die. The doctors couldn’t find anything wrong, and just prescribed heavy duty pain killers. I started reading everything I could find about health at that time in hopes of finding something that would take the headaches away.

Alternative Health Options

I read Sheldon, Bragg, Carrington, Professor Hotima, Victoris Kulvinskas, Norman Walker, Wigmore, Pritikin – you name the guru, I tried the cure. I did a 31 day distilled water fast (Bragg), and went from 180 lbs to about 96 lbs – almost died, but was convinced that it would be worth it if the headaches went away, and they did for almost 2 years. The problem was that I was so weakened by the fast that it took those 2 years to recover, and then the headaches returned.

I juiced carrots, celery, parsley, beats, and turnip greens and drank the juice by the quart until my skin turned orange (Walker). I raised wheat grass and drank 8 oz of wheat grass juice per day (Wigmore). I sprouted soybeans, wheat, millet, buckwheat, and sunflower seeds, and made ‘rejuvilac’ (Kulvinskasv). I made ‘Essene’ bread from sprouted grains and lentils. I ate cherries by the bushel basket when they were in season (Sheldon), and drank a quart of a tonic made from apple cider vinegar and honey every day (Bragg). None of this did any good. My headaches were as bad as ever, and I felt terrible most of the time.

By then we had the vegetarian movement so I went totally vegan from about 1978 until 1989. My health became so bad that it was painful to get up in the morning. My joints hurt and my teeth were losing their enamel. Not only did I have the killer headaches that would send me to bed in the dark with a heating pad over my face, but my muscles would go into hard painful cramps and spasms that would send me to the emergency room for a shot of muscle relaxant and pain killer.

The interesting part is, I was eating large amounts of whole grains and avoided all those bad “fats” like the plague. I tried the fruitarian route and only lasted a couple of weeks before I was so weak that I could hardly move.
About this time I discovered Pritikin, and that probably saved my life. I went back to eating meat in small amounts but held to the low fat theory because of all those “studies” that showed that animal fat was the cause of heart disease and cancer. At least life was somewhat normal and I felt OK (but not great) most of the time. Still had the headaches but they were once a month or so.

Paleolithic Transition

It was in late 1999 that I ran across Ray Audette’s book Neanderthin. This is also about the time that this wonderful world of the Internet really started to become useful. I started researching the Paleo type diets and began to slowly move in that direction. I still cooked everything, but cut out grains, dairy, and the like but was convinced that my diet still needed to be predominately fruits and vegetables with just small amounts of meat – sort of a super Pritikin without the grains, dairy, and potatoes. I would eat large salads (2 gallon bowl) of mixed greens and veggies with about 8 oz of meat at a meal.

Things got considerably better on my interpretation of the Neanderthin diet, but by this time I’m getting older. I hit 50 in 2001. I was still getting the occasion headache but now it was once every couple of months. I have also suffered from Prostatitis (inflamed prostate gland) since about age 25. I’d get flair-ups every couple of years that would send me to the hospital and I’d be on antibiotics for 6 – 8 weeks. One of these bouts hit in 2003 and this is when they discovered that my blood pressure was rising (147/90 at the time), blood sugar was elevated (fasting level 140), and triglycerides were about 500. All of this was attributed by the medical profession to just normal aging. This was also about the time that the dentist determined that I had advanced gum disease would need to see a specialist as both gums and bone holding the teeth were receding.

I was told that I would need to start taking blood pressure medication, diabetic pills, and cholesterol reducing drugs. The doctors said, “Of course there will be side effects like impotence, nausea, headaches, etc., but we should be able to control most of those by rotating through different drugs” As you can imagine, I was not thrilled.

It was back to the Internet where my next revelation was that I got the “hunter/gatherer” thing backwards. Hunter is first and so diet should be mostly meat. Gathering is for lean times when meat is not available. I had been doing almost the exact opposite. So now I moved to eating a large serving of meat or eggs at each meal but was sure to supplement with a salad and fruit to get all those necessary vitamins and minerals that you just couldn’t get from meat (you know, like vitamin C). I still cooked the meat to at least medium well and I just couldn’t eat fat, it would make me gag. I did notice an immediate improvement in digestion with the change to a higher protein way of eating. Much less gas and indigestion.

About this time a friend gave me a book on the Lewis and Clarke expedition where many of their journal entries were reproduced. I found it amazing to read that each man would often eat 9 lbs of meat after a day of heavy labor. Lewis also recounted that when they would kill a large animal, that the Indians would eat the organs raw. There were times when they subsisted on nothing but Pemmican (mostly dried raw meat and fat) yet remained in perfect health. This helped me to better understand just how much meat I really needed to eat as well as the importance of fat.

A year or so ago I ran across Geoff’s Raw Paleo Diet Yahoo! group and read every post with relish. It is this group and the links that Geoff provided that gave me the courage to try eating meat raw and ultimately doing away with fruits and veggies altogether. I figured that if Vilhjalmur Stefansson could do it then I could too. It was not easy but I did do it almost over night. I think the transition took about 3 months total. I’ve recounted some of the milestones of my return to health in that forum. In the beginning I would have killed for a Pepsi or cookie or a piece of fruit. Now I don’t miss the carbs at all, and seldom think about food. I eat once a day, about 2 lbs of mixed raw organ and muscle meat from grass fed beef – that’s it.

At this time my blood pressure is 102/67, my blood sugar stays right around 95 – 100, pulse has dropped from a resting rate of 78 to a resting rate of 60, and the dentist is amazed at the return of bone density and solid pink gums. Pain from arthritis in hands and knees is completely gone. Cancerous lesions on my face have all but disappeared (I used to have at least a dozen every 6 months and last month there were none). Still have prostate issues but I do see improvement there also. I used to get up every 2 hours at night, and after a year on this diet it is every 3 – 4 hours depending on how much water I drink before going to bed. I will be going to the doctor for a physical in a few weeks and will report cholesterol, triglycerides, and anything else of interest to the group when I get the results.

Lex Rooker’s journal is still publically available on-line and may be read here: