Beef

This incredible photo was taken by renowned animal photographer Marina Cano.

All meat is considered to be fair game (pun intended!) on a Zero Carb diet. But many Zero Carb practitioners have stated that they feel much more satiated after eating beef than other meats such as chicken and fish. This is interesting given that one study published in The Journal of Nutrition found that test subjects experienced greater satiety after eating a fish meal, compared to beef or chicken.

The scientists ascribed these results to the fact that fish has 6 times the amount of the amino acid taurine, as either beef or chicken. However, I was not able to determine the amount of fat present in the study test meals, and I strongly suspect that they were all lean cuts. Nevertheless, adding extra fat – such as butter – to fish or chicken meals, still seems to be less satisfying for most Zero Carb-ers than eating naturally fatty beef. The results of this study really don’t make sense in light of all the anecdotal reports of Zero Carb-ers feeling more satisfied for longer periods after eating beef, but one study – involving only 6 test subjects – is hardly definitive anyway.

Chicken as meat is a fairly recent addition to the American diet. Prior to the mid-1900s, chickens were raised almost exclusively for egg production. The only time a chicken was cooked was when she had out-lived her usefulness as a layer. Then, she was liable to be put into a stock pot and transformed into bone broth or soup. This all changed as the anti-fat propaganda took hold thanks to the erroneous, unscientific work and personal agenda of Ancel Keys. (Please see The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz for the full story.)

It is also highly unlikely that birds comprised any significant part of the early human diet. When scientists recently examined the skeletal remains of a 19,000 year old woman known as the “Red Lady,” who was found in a cave in northern Spain, they were able to determine that she derived 80% of her calories from hooved animals (i.e. red meat) and the other 20% from fish. Aside from a few mushrooms, her consumption of plant foods appeared to be almost non-existent. (Please see Red Lady Cave Burial Reveals Stone Age Secrets in the New Scientist for the full story.)

There is a whole school of thought within the anthropological and archaeological communities that subscribes to the idea that the consumption of seafood was instrumental in the development of our huge, energy hungry brains. This theory is based on the fact that we have about 3 times as much DHA in our brains as our closest relative, the Chimpanzee. DHA is an omega 3 fatty acid which is most abundant in seafood. (Please see Nutrition and Evolution: Food in Evolution and the Future by Michael Crawford for the full story.)

However, DHA is also present in the brains of other animals, and it may well be that our unprecedented brain growth came as a result of tools and techniques that we developed which allowed us to break open the skulls of large animals and eat their brains. This would have provided us with both more calories and more omega 3. (Please see Man, The Fat Hunter by Miki Ben-Dor for the full story.)

Either way, the case can certainly be made for the inclusion of some fish in our diet today, though it was probably not the main meat of choice for any human society until the availability of large game animals began to dwindle. Fish is also quite a bit higher than beef in the amino acid methionine, and too much methionine has been shown to cause oxidative damage to mitochondrial DNA in rats. Humans are obviously not the same as rats, but the study results certainly warrant further investigation. Even the sea-based diets of Native Arctic cultures have traditionally eaten the meat of seals and whales, rather than fish.

This brings me to another point worth considering. Humans are mammals. Chickens and fish are not mammals. I am going to go out on a limb here and speculate that the meat of mammals simply provides more of the nutrients that we humans – who also happen to be mammals – need for optimal health and longevity. After beef, the second most satisfying meats for those eating a Zero Carb diet are lamb and pork. This is not too surprising since sheep and pigs are also mammals and may – therefore – have a more complete nutrient profile than fish or birds. Similarly, whales and seals are also mammals and are the sea-version of “hooved” animals.

Finally, I have noticed that my dog has a definite preference for red meat. I have raised him on a raw meaty bone diet since I brought him home to live with me at the age of 10 weeks. But, I have fed him a diet comprised almost exclusively of chicken and turkey because those were the most most affordable option. However, about 2 years ago, the chicken started making him ill, which I attribute to widespread contamination of antibiotic resistant bacteria present in commercial poultry operations. This is a fairly recent phenomenon, as I fed my dog lots of chicken without incident for the first 6 years of his life. Then everything changed and he started to experience vomiting and diarrhea after eating it. When I switched him to pork, lamb, and beef, he did not get sick.

Sasha with his favorite ball!

Interestingly, even when I fed him good quality chicken that was not contaminated, he was never particularly thrilled to eat it. And he actually refused to eat anymore turkey even though it was not making him sick. He just did not seem to like it the taste of it very much. He is not super motivated by food anyways and much prefers to play with his ball. Nevertheless, he gets appreciably more excited about eating pork, lamb, and beef than he ever did about chicken or turkey. If I was to layout a selection of each kind of meat for him to choose from, I am certain he would preferentially select beef first, then pork or lamb, and then chicken as a last resort. This, along with the reports of so many Zero Carb-ers claiming to feel more satisfied from beef than any other meat, has got me thinking that maybe my dog also needs something in red meat that is just not present in birds or fish.

New research has shown that dogs and humans evolved together and literally domesticated each other. By working together, humans and wolves became more successful hunters, and this process changed us – both physically and socially – and made us who we are today. Dogs are the only other creatures on the planet that are capable of accurately reading human emotion, and they learned to do this because it gave them a survival advantage. (Please see The Animal Connection:A New Perspective on What Makes Us Human by Pat Shipman for the full story.) If this is true, it would make perfect sense that our canine companions – who are also mammals – would have likewise evolved on a predominantly red meat (i.e. hooved animals) diet.

Beef – with sufficient fat – has proven itself to be a complete food, as the experience of The Andersen’s so clearly demonstrates. For 17 years, they have eaten almost nothing but Rib Eye steaks, and not only did they experience recovery from serious illness, but they have conceived, birthed, and raised two healthy boys on this amazing food. Joe recently commented in the Facebook group Principia Carnivora,

“The Auroch is the precursor to today’s cattle. The Auroch was found in Northern Africa during the Pliocene period onwards until the last known Auroch died in 1627. Eventually man domesticated the Auroch giving us what we now know as our cattle. The Aroch was huge, nearly twice as big as our present cattle. In my humble opinion, judging by the fact that an overwhelming number of ZCers thrive on beef (not chicken, fish, turkey, eggs, lamb etc…) we must have consumed a major portion of our early diet in the form of Auroch. I can only dream of how HUGE the ribeyes must’ve been!”

(To read the details of their experience, please see Zero Carb Interview: The Andersen Family.)

If you are concerned about the environmental impact of raising beef cattle for human food consumption, I highly recommend the thoughtful and balanced exploration of this issue by the long-time vegetarian and environmental lawyer, Nicolette Hahn Niman, who became a cattle rancher: Defending Beef:The Case for Sustainable Meat Production.

62 thoughts on “Beef”

Susan on March 26, 2015 at 6:43 PM said:

Nice article, thanks!

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- Annie on June 22, 2018 at 11:32 AM said:
  
  I strongly agree about the beef. I do think the 20% seafood of the red lady and the fact that all humans evolved around water ways and coast lines is significant, however. As far as satiaty on a fish dinner, try a poke bowl of only fish… I have found that a large amount of raw fish, especially tuna and salmon, provides superior statiaty to cooked fish.
  
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Cassandra Cavanaugh on March 26, 2015 at 11:20 PM said:

Esmee, I’m interested in the amounts you feed your dog and at what intervals. I’m considering switching mine to an all-meat diet, too.

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- esmeelafleur on March 27, 2015 at 12:37 AM said:
  
  I only feed him once a day, about 2 lbs of meat and bones. The best book on the subject is Give Your Dog a Bone by Ian Billinghurst, DVM.
  
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  - Kelsey on October 28, 2016 at 6:04 AM said:
    
    Super late response here, I hope you’re still active. I have a Great Dane/Weimaraner mix and two pit bulls. The dane is the oldest sitting at almost 5 years. I feed them a high quality kibble. Do you think it’d be detrimental to their system to slowly work them into a full raw diet?
    
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    - esmeelafleur on October 28, 2016 at 8:33 AM said:
      
      No, I think it would be highly beneficial. We have a group on Facebook called Principia Carnivora Pets. You join us there if you wish.
      
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James Hardiman on June 2, 2015 at 2:28 AM said:

Re the environmental effects of eating beef. Beef raised a certain way reverses desertification, sequesters carbon, is good for the environment. See http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change?language=en

Also look at the work of http://holisticmanagement.org

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Karl on September 4, 2015 at 5:09 AM said:

“the skeletal remains of a 19,000 year old woman ”
Now that is what I call longevity 😉

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Jesse on May 21, 2017 at 3:41 AM said:

Esmee, I’m a bit confused as on one hand i’ve read on here (testimonials etc.) and over at ZIOH facebook how folks are thriving consuming lots of meat in their diet even long term and yet on the other hand I’ve heard interviews on Jimmy Moore’s podcast with people I respect like Nora Gedgaudas etc. state that high protein even in a zero carb/keto diet will raise the mTOR metabolic pathway which is can cause cancer and premature aging etc.

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- esmeelafleur on May 28, 2017 at 2:24 PM said:
  
  Nora follows Ron Rosedale, who works with type 2 diabetics. It’s possible that some people in that category may need to restrict protein initially. But zero carb and low carb are not the same thing. With no carbs in the diet, you can eat more protein. Also, all of our nutrients are found in the lean portion of meat, which is also where the protein is located. If we limit protein too much, then we simultaneously limit nutrients. The very low protein high fat Ketogenic diet was designed for epileptics, to help control seizure activity. It is not a healthy diet long term because it leads to nutritional deficiencies unless supplements are used. Please read these three articles:
  
  1) https://zerocarbzen.com/2015/09/29/optimal-protein-on-a-zero-carb-diet/
  
  2) https://zerocarbzen.com/2015/10/04/optimal-protein-on-a-zero-carb-diet-part-2/
  
  3) https://zerocarbzen.com/2016/04/21/optimal-fat-intake-on-a-zero-carb-diet/
  
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Jesse on May 21, 2017 at 3:46 AM said:

FYI: Nora Gedgaudas is the author of the book ‘Primal Body Primal Mind’.

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Langdon Ennis on July 11, 2017 at 7:26 PM said:

I simply cannot afford organic beef…Can I eat store bought beef, or will it kill me. Is there a way to prepare it that makes it acceptable. I assume eating store bought raw is dangerous. Thanx

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- esmeelafleur on July 16, 2017 at 8:49 AM said:
  
  The majority of people eating an all meat diet buy their meat from a regular supermarket; it is neither organic nor grass fed. Prepare it way you enjoy it.
  
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Megan Gibbs on November 7, 2017 at 4:54 AM said:

This is one of your best written articles Esmee. So much information and evidence collected about beef that i had not considered before. Thank you once again for creating this website with such a wealth of information.

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Caolán Maher on March 12, 2018 at 3:36 PM said:

Hooooray for Beef!!!! I live in Ireland! Green grass all year round . Beef here is the best in the world imo!! I have fibromyalgia , hoping this diet will help, have you any experience with this sort of thing ??

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- esmeelafleur on March 12, 2018 at 5:28 PM said:
  
  https://zerocarbzen.com/2016/02/04/zero-carb-interview-liz-spencer/
  
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Garrett on March 20, 2018 at 5:09 PM said:

Can I use eggs as a meal or should I just use them as sides. Lately I’ve been eating more eggs and since then I’ve been cutting down on beef. Is this okay?

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- esmeelafleur on March 20, 2018 at 7:14 PM said:
  
  Personally, eggs make me hungry and beef is the only neat that truly satisfies me.
  
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M&m on April 30, 2018 at 7:20 PM said:

Thanks for all the research and info. I am drawn to carnivory due to its simplicity and my high level of food sensitivities. However, I am running into a problem. I’m very satiated with beef steaks (not ground beef), but it seems to cause scaly, dry dark patches on my face and heightened seasonal allergy reactions during this peak time of year (sharp piercing pain in back roof of month, ear itching, even worse with grass-fed beef). When I cut out the beef, my skin clears up and the pain at back of my mouth disappears. I’ve been eating turkey instead but find it’s not satiating and much too dry to eat alone, so I am not eating meat-based anymore. My beef-steak-based diet was not just beef steaks & water nor plant-free, though it was low carb, and included Jun, unsweetened coconut milk, occasional soy-free vegan protein bar, smoked salt, broccoli. Again, when I swapped the beef for turkey and kept all the other foods, the negative symptoms went away. Face is now clear.

What is your input please? Do you think a meat-and-water-only diet that is beef-steak based would elicit the same negative results? I don’t believe this diet will be for me doable on just chicken wings (I don’t care for most of the chicken) and plain turkey. (Can’t eat fish, pork, or dairy.)

Thanks for any relevant information.

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- esmeelafleur on May 1, 2018 at 8:16 AM said:
  
  It sounds like you are histamine sensitive/intolerant. All beef is aged to some extent unfortunately and aging causes the formation of histamines. I react worse to grass fed beef as well. I believe this is because it is dry aged for 7 days before reaching the butcher. I find tgat i do much better with commercial beef that has been cryovac’d (vacuum sealed) within 48 hours of slaughter. I have had good results with bulk, untrimmed, PRIME grade New York Strip Loin or Ribeye from Costco. I buy a whole package, open, cut into steaks, vacuum seal individually, and freeze. This prevents histamines from forming. Histamines are created by bacteria on tge surface of the meat. Removing tge oxygen and freezing stops bacterial activity. I also do way better with beef that is fully raw. I react to tge chemicals created when meat is browned. You might look for a source of chicken backs. Mary’s sells them by the case to a store near me. I ate those for two months when i had troubke getting a safe source of beef. Chicken backs a super fatty. I cooked them slow and low in a small amount if water for 3 hours. I strongly recommend that you ditch all plant foods completely for 90 days. Then you can retest them one by one if you wish and see how you react.
  
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  - M&m on May 1, 2018 at 12:03 PM said:
    
    Thanks for the quick response! So, I knew I couldn’t be the only one. Whew! I wanted to “do something” starting May 1st so your advice comes right on time. Now, I think I can proceed with some confidence. Thanks very much!!
    
    We normally buy whole loins of ribeyes or NY strips and have the butcher cut them into thick steaks when we catch a sale but haven’t tried Costco. Will look into that. Chicken backs?? Hmmm. Will check into that too. For now, I’ll have to work with chicken wings. They’re pretty fatty.
    
    One more question please: I normally spray the steaks with food-grade hydrogen peroxide, let it set for about 20 minutes, rinse well, “par-broil” (about 4 mins. each side), then freeze in Zip-lock bags. That way when we warm them up, they don’t get overcooked. Would this method keep the histamine down as well? (I hope I’m not reacting to the browned fat (YUM) and meat.)
    
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    - esmeelafleur on May 1, 2018 at 12:23 PM said:
      
      I honestly don’t know, but it sounds like it might. You would have to not do that, and only freeze them and see how you react in order to compare. I do better with the PRIME grade than i do with the CHOICE grade because it seems to move faster and is therefore not as old.
      
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      - M&m on May 1, 2018 at 3:32 PM said:
        
        Got it! Thanks again. 🙂
        
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- David P. on May 27, 2018 at 5:19 AM said:
  
  I have been having difficulties tolerating beef (cooked, unseasoned ground/sirloin). I am 1 week into the Zero Plant diet and beef has been causing various symptoms such as: insomnia, burning feeling on scalp, agitation, nervousness, frequent night-time bathroom visits. The last 24 hours have been without beef and I already feel a little better, with a marked reduction in all of these symptoms. I substituted beef with turkey and added a boatload of butter. Has anybody else experienced something similar, any thoughts on what might be happening?
  
  1. The symptoms I experienced, described above, were similar to when I tried Vitamin B12 supplements in the past (including desiccated beef liver tabs). I speculated that the B12 in beef was at fault, and therefore tried turkey breast, as it has very low levels of that vitamin. After 24 hours, things have calmed down and improved. Could this be related to methylation and B12 affects that negatively in me for some reason?
  
  2. If beef is off the table for me, could I still do this diet by eating meats very low in B12 (assuming B12 is the problem) and adding butter/cream to make sure my fat intake is sufficient? Are there downfalls to such a diet that I should be aware of, or is it really just a case of experimenting with all that the animal kingdom has to offer and settling on the foods that bring me good health?
  
  Many thanks for your time and help.
  
  David P.
  
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  - esmeelafleur on May 27, 2018 at 6:49 AM said:
    
    This sounds like a histamine problem.
    
    https://zerocarbzen.com/histamines/
    
    Ground beef is higher in histamines than whole steak. You might try steak for comparison. Newbold found ground beef to be very problematic for his patients.
    
    https://zerocarbzen.com/2015/05/04/dr-h-l-newbold-on-ground-meat/
    
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    - David P. on May 27, 2018 at 9:44 AM said:
      
      Thank you so much, Esmee. I will follow your advice and see if that helps. And thank you for having this wonderful resource to help people. Blessings!
      
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      - esmeelafleur on May 27, 2018 at 1:29 PM said:
        
        My pleasure. Please join us on Facebook in our group Principia Carnivora where you can ask lots of questions more easily.
        
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      - David P. on May 30, 2018 at 3:34 PM said:
        
        I have tried using whole steak (including washing meat before cooking), as recommended above to reduce histamine levels, with limited success. There is some reduction in symptoms but insomnia, nervousness, and brain fog persist. I’ve tried various cuts of steak from my NYC grocery store, but I have no idea about the slaughter to dinner plate timeline.
        
        Have you, or anybody, had any experience trying OTC antihistamines? I have read that they may reduce DAO, so perhaps not a good idea; but I’m interested in any experience people have had.
        
        I did find an interesting study in the below URL. It states that boiling meat can reduce, somewhat, histamine levels, while grilling/frying tends to raise levels. Have you tried this cooking technique, and if so, did it bring improvement?
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5705351/
        
        I’m now on day 10 of Zero Carb. Feeling weak, with low energy. Hopefully in the next week I will start to turn the corner. It’s not too hard to stay away from the carbs, but I do very much need to get a handle on these symptoms I’m experiencing from the beef.
        
        Thank you!
        
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      - esmeelafleur on May 30, 2018 at 8:18 PM said:
        
        I personally do best with beef that is completely raw. I also do best with beef that has been cryovac’d rather than dry aged. Cryovac’d beef has the oxygen removed. This reduces bacterial growth. It’s the bacteria that produce the histamines. You can buy a whole cryovac’d Ribeye roast unopened, then open, cut into steaks, and freeze. This will reduce the histamines. I have not tried antihistamines because they all have fillers that I will react to, and they all increase the risk of dementia.
        
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M&m on June 3, 2018 at 1:24 PM said:

David P., thanks so much for sharing your experience and especially that Annals of Dermatology article. Will start a trial of boiled steaks and see if I can reap the benefits of this simplified eating plan without the intolerance/allergy issues. Had a boiled steak for my entree today. Taste wasn’t bad, and, unlike chicken or turkey, it satisfied my appetite completely, leaving me with nearly no auxiliary cravings. (You know what I mean? That “wanting just a little something more and different” feeling that sends one scurrying back to the fridge or cupboards for starches or fruit..)

Oh, and yes, I have used OTC antihistamines when necessary but prefer not to. I find Dr. King’s Allergy & Hay Fever Reliever homeopathic treatment is the only thing that relieves my itchy ears. When upper respiratory symptoms (nasal congestion, runny nose, itchy throat, watering eyes, etc.) have gotten too bad, the tiniest sip of Walmart’s Equate-brand of children’s allergy relief [Zyrtec] syrup relieves those.

Of course, the my whole point of this is to get past/cure any allergy/food intolerance issues so there’s no need for any meds. If I have to take meds to eat a food, that’s a sign for me that it’s not good for this body’s health. So will see how boiled steaks work out.

Thanks again.

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- esmeelafleur on June 3, 2018 at 2:57 PM said:
  
  Have you read Dr. Newbold’s Type A/B Weight Loss book? It’s in the files of our Facebook group Principia Carnivora. I think you will find it extremely interesting. It’s more about food intolerance than weight loss. Very worthwhile.
  
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  - M&m on June 3, 2018 at 4:53 PM said:
    
    Hi there! No, I haven’t. Where exactly do I find it on Facebook group Principia Carnivora? I’ve joined group (thanks for the approval), but I can’t seem to find the file even when I search “dr. newbold’s type a/b weight loss”. Only saw some link to vidmoon.co that requires signing up to some other account. Please let me know exactly how to access the info. I’ll start reading it tonight.
    
    Thanks much for the suggestion.
    
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    - esmeelafleur on June 3, 2018 at 6:00 PM said:
      
      On my iPhone, “Files” is an option to click on near the top of the group page.
      
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      - M&m on June 3, 2018 at 9:13 PM said:
        
        Found it! “Files” looks like a treasure trove. Thanks again!
        
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Luyz on August 9, 2018 at 9:29 AM said:

Which are the best/most fatty beef cuts in people’s experiences here? Are most beef cuts similar in nutrition and fat percentage?

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- esmeelafleur on August 9, 2018 at 2:39 PM said:
  
  This is not an interactive group. Please join us in our Facebook group Principia Carnivora and ask your question there.
  
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Loïc Le Guen on September 3, 2018 at 10:58 AM said:

What about horses ?

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- esmeelafleur on September 3, 2018 at 11:02 AM said:
  
  I have no knowledge or experience with horse meat. We don’t eat it in the United States.
  
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Lou on April 28, 2019 at 11:55 AM said:

FWIW, I was reading the book Imagining Head Smashed In, the author states ” because bison have enjoyed an explosion in popularity in recent years, thanks in part to the superior nutrition
they offer compared with beef …. ”

So I checked. That doesn’t seem so to me as a ZCr ; the author is not ZC & that is fine & understandable.
I did notice that bison has 14% more potassium , beef has a 4.1 : 4 potassium to sodium ratio whereas bison has a 4.6 : 1 ratio.

Doesn’t really matter to me because I have no cheap easy source of bison near me, but if I did, I’d still try bison for a month or 2 instead of beef (which is 98% of what I eat) just for the heck of it. But as I say, beef seems to have a very slightly better nutrition profile.

In the below two links they show the nutrient profiles, the easiest columns to read for comparisons are the 113.0g columns
bison, ground raw
https://www.eatbisonmeat.com/webapp/p/9/buffalo-ranches
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/17330?fgcd=&manu=&format=&count=&max=25&offset=&sort=default&order=asc&qlookup=bison&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

vs.
80:20 ground beef raw
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/beef/show

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- esmeelafleur on April 28, 2019 at 12:13 PM said:
  
  It’s always worthwhile to experiment with different meats and see how you feel.
  
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rubiescorner on May 7, 2019 at 2:32 PM said:

This is all interesting. Thank you for writing all about this kind of eating. I read as much as I could.

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Lou on May 7, 2019 at 3:48 PM said:

FWIW, some more experimenting I did.
I happened to find lamb on sale so I tried it, bone in, a big chunk of meat. It was fine so I online-researched it a bit to find the fat content, etc

The sodium : potassium ratio is 3.7 : 1 (compared to ground beef which is 4.1 : 1 )

Ground raw has 17% more fat than ideal 80:20 ground beef (ideal as in 80% of calories from fat) so, theoretically, one can eat much less (maybe 30-40% less, I have no idea but that seems logical , everyone’s satiety etc is likely different ), so that may offset the price difference vs. ground beef . Next time I’m at the store I see if they have GROUND lamb and see if the price is 30% higher than 80:20 ground beef .

I am guessing that the un-ground big chunk I bought had more fat than ground lamb, again no idea but just a guess on how a smaller portion filled me up vs. the portion size ground beef required

lamb https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/17224?fgcd=&manu=&format=&count=&max=25&offset=&sort=default&order=asc&qlookup=GROUND+LAMB%2C+UPC%3A+759583123087&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

vs.

80:20 ground beef
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/beef/show

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- esmeelafleur on May 7, 2019 at 4:46 PM said:
  
  80/20 ground beef is not 80% fat 20% protein by calories, but by weight. It’s actually 70% fat and 30% protein by calories. And yes, cooking the ground beef will cook fat out of the meat. If you cook the meat in a pan, you can alway add the rendered liquid fat back to the meat on your plate and then the fat will be the same cooked as raw.
  
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  - Lou on May 11, 2019 at 9:22 AM said:
    
    I’m having difficulty understanding /calculating the % of calories from fat & from protein. Can you please point out my error? Thank you
    
    fat has 9 cal per gram
    protein has 4 cal per gram
    so a
    9f: 4p ratio ; 9/4
    9divided by 4 = 2.25
    Fat has 2.25 the calories of protein
    
    A 1g portion of 80:20 Ground beef has
    .2 x 9cals = 1.8cals from fat
    and
    .8 x 4cals = 3.2cals from protein
    
    1.8 + 3.2 = 5 calories total in 1g of 80:20 Ground beef
    
    1.8cals from fat ÷ 5 total calories = .36 = 36% calories from fat
    
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    - esmeelafleur on May 11, 2019 at 10:26 AM said:
      
      80/20 is not by CALORIES, it is by WEIGHT. In other words, every 16 oz of 80/20 is made from 12.8 oz lean meat (not to be confused with protein) and 3.2 oz of separable fat. Lean meat is not 100% protein. It contains variable levels of fat depending on the cut. Bottom round lean has about 25% fat by CALORIES, top sirloin lean has about 40% fat by CALORIES, chuck roast lean has about 55% fat by CALORIES. Separable fat is also not 100% fat, it has about 5% protein by CALORIES from connective tissue. So the actually fat to protein ratio by CALORIES of the finished product will vary to some degree depending on which lean cut the butcher uses to make his mixture. However, some butchers have a machine that they can put the ground beef into and will tell them the exact percentages. But many butchers cannot afford it and simply do it by eye and their long experience. I suggest looking up the different ratios of ground beef on Cronometer.
      
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      - Lou on May 11, 2019 at 2:31 PM said:
        
        Ah, now I see.
        ” lean meat (not to be confused with protein)…. Lean meat is not 100% protein. It contains variable levels of fat depending on the cut..”
        That is what I misunderstood.
        I thought butchers are adding separable fat to “100% protein lean”; but as you say lean is not all protein, of course there is fat marbled in. Actually sounds like butches don’t add separable fat but just take pieces like you gave examples of & grind it up, visible fat & all.
        
        Part of my confusion was I never saw a butcher grind beef. I have only done & seen adding ground beef & separable beef fat to deer ( which I also wrongly thought was 100% protein unless you can see white fat, again wrong, of course there will be fat not visible in the lean deer fibers as well). I am aware that deer is way less lean than beef. Hunters & their butchers usually say ” 1 pound of beef fat per 4 pounds of deer meat to get a 80/20 mixture equivalent to what you would buy at the grocery store.
        
        Yea I better stick with Cronometer. But I’m still confused; Esmee wrote ” 80/20 ground beef is not 80% fat 20% protein by calories, but by weight. It’s actually 70% fat and 30% protein by calories. ” When I go to Cronometer & look at 80:20 Ground beef it states 58% of the calories are from fat (hover over the red semi-circle) .
        It says 75:25 is 59% calories from fat
        It says 70:30 is 60% calories from fat
        It says <70:<30 is 62% calories from fat
        
        Am I not reading Cronometer correctly?
        
        Thank you for helping me.
        
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      - esmeelafleur on May 11, 2019 at 6:51 PM said:
        
        Your fat to protein ratios are for cook ground beef where some of the fat has been rendered out. If you cook on a pan, you can add the rendered fat back to the meat on your plate and then you will get the total fat listed in the raw 80/20 ground beef. I’ve sent you an email with pictures of the Cronometer entries for each, as unfortunately I cannot post photos in the comments.
        
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Lou on May 12, 2019 at 8:13 AM said:

Thank you very much.
I failed to scroll through all the Ground beef options in my search & assumed what I was reading was “raw”, had I scrolled to see the “raw” options I could have deduced all others were “cooked”.

Isn’t it interesting that the 75:25 & the 70:30 ground beef cooked is a mere 57-60% calories from fat, unless cooked in a pan & the rendered fat poured back on, but most folks probably grill burgers. So one can compensate by eating grilled paddys with butter or lard. I know my 73:27 are a flaming mess on the grill so don’t even bother.

I’m trying to understand how pemmican, which cannot be found on the Cronometer, that by weight is 50:50, ended up with those guys mentioned in Stefansson’s book determining that they got “75-80% of calories from fat” . Does that make sense to you? Seems it may be even higher?

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- esmeelafleur on May 20, 2019 at 10:20 PM said:
  
  I figured out the math once for pemmican and I know its correct. I believe it’s calculated from the weight of the rendered tallow and the weight of the dried lean beef.
  
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Natasha on June 5, 2020 at 5:11 PM said:

Hello Esmee!
I’m wondering if you’ve ever heard of anyone doing carnivore with only chicken and fish (and maybe eggs)? I was recently bitten by a lone star tick and I may have the allergy that makes you allergic to red meat 😦 however I want to stick to the carnivore WOE.
Let me know 🙂
– Natasha

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- esmeelafleur on June 5, 2020 at 8:26 PM said:
  
  Yes, read this man’s interview: https://zerocarbzen.com/2018/08/17/zero-carb-interview-sergey-yakunin/
  
  I have trouble with too many histamines in beef and have been eating only chicken backs for the past 6 months. I eat the backs because they are much fattier. I’ve been buying Mary’s organic chicken backs in 40 lb boxes and packing into 3 lb packages and freezing. I simmer in water for 4 hours, drink the broth (liquid fat removed), then I eat the meat, fatty skin, and cartilage. I only eat one meal per day.
  
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  - Natasha on June 7, 2020 at 8:09 AM said:
    
    Wow that is great, thank you so much for this info Esmee I truly appreciate it. And good luck with your histamine issues I hope they clear up! But it’s so nice to know that there are options and that we don’t have to stop carnivore just because a few bumps in the road pop up 🙂
    Thank you again
    
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    - esmeelafleur on June 7, 2020 at 1:52 PM said:
      
      May your journey be blessed.
      
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Frank on October 27, 2020 at 6:08 PM said:

Hello,
I’d like to try raw beef, but I’m worried about bad microbes. I notice you freeze your steaks. Do you do this to kill bacteria and make the raw meat safe to eat?

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- esmeelafleur on October 27, 2020 at 6:44 PM said:
  
  No, I have been eating raw ground beef off and on for 15 years and I have never once gotten sick. But I buy from very reputable butchers or I grind it myself from whole pieces.
  
  Here is another article I wrote on raw beef:
  https://zerocarbzen.com/2016/10/01/why-do-you-eat-your-meat-raw/
  
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Peter Nagy on May 10, 2021 at 2:00 AM said:

I have started on beef only but I am having lots of kidney pain.. can someone tell me if this is normal?

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- esmeelafleur on May 10, 2021 at 5:52 AM said:
  
  No, not at all normal. How many grams of protein to fat? How much water? How much salt?
  
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  - Peter Nagy on May 10, 2021 at 3:08 PM said:
    
    I am just eating a steak or 2 a day, with lard or olive oil to cook it, with lots of water and appropriate salt to eat them. I was told some kidney pain was normal by many people that are doing this and that it is common as you move into ketosis.
    
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    - esmeelafleur on May 10, 2021 at 3:15 PM said:
      
      It has not been a common symptom reported in my Facebook group Principia Carnivora. You might want to join and ask your question there.
      
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Cris on July 23, 2021 at 11:42 AM said:

O prato principal dos indígenas isolados aqui do Brasil é:

Pássaros variados.

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Brandon on April 16, 2023 at 7:22 AM said:

Hello, hoping you still read comments here. I did a beef, salt, water only diet for 100 days. I ate only ground beef because it’s all I can afford while doing this, it’s organic and grass fed. I ate it raw because I have illnesses that make me extremely nauseus and indigestion from most foods but raw beef gives no symptoms. Whenever I tried to do little or no salt I would start freezing and getting massive headaches and feel like something was very wrong, like annibaility to focus or concentrate. So I bought a mineral salt and that seemed to help and my symptoms actually dissipated. However after I reached the point of around 90 days I started having constant numbness in my pinkys and ring finger and on some areas of the palms. I also started feeling chronically sluggish, dehydrated and when I went fro walks I’d feel massively weak and dehydrated. At this point I went to see the doctor and they discovered I had a massive folate deficiency. This deficiency I didn’t have in any bloodtests I’d done over the years. My iron levels were also a little bit odd. The doctor at the time said it was borderline deficiency and another doctor said it wasn’t. I had to quit being zero cabr due to how bad I felt and inmplemented berries and the likes to see if I felt better. I also bought rotisery chicken and just washed off the spices and it tasted great but dry. But I always felt cold and like something was wrong. Slowly but surely I feel back to something like SAD. And I’ve sadly gained A LOT of weight. I’ve also suffered chronically low Vitamin D3 for most my life and the levels actually went down during my zero carb. When I supplement vitamin D3 drops I get higher blood pressure and feel worse.

Someone explained to me that I likely had chronic vitamin C deficiency since long before I even ate zero carb and it somehow had an ill effect on my folate. I don’t know how realistic that is.

I’m back again, I’ve ordered 70 ibs of ground beef and It’s arriving Thursday and I want it to work this time. This is not true zero carb what I’m thinking but I’d like to ask your opinion. Is it wrong of me to eat a daily diet like this?
2-2.5ibs ground beef
2-4 raw eggs yolks (For folate)
1 juiced lemon in water (For vitamin C + folate)
If available (since 1 hour drive to farm) 1-2 cups of raw milk

I know many people seem to have issues with what eggs can do and I know the lemon juice is very controversial. I’m basically assuming I will get fatigue from the eggs and lemon but if it prevents the nerve issues and how bad I felt and the folate deficiency it might be worth it, since the fatigue caused by the current diet I have is 200x worse. I can’t eat liver, I’ve tried 100s of times and it doesn’t work. And I took freezedried liver powder and got dirahea every time.

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- esmeelafleur on April 16, 2023 at 9:13 AM said:
  
  Brandon – please know that you are not alone in your struggles. The carnivore diet is a way of eating, not a religion. Ultimately, you need to eat whatever makes you feel good. My own situation is extremely complicated. I came to zero carb carnivore because I react to everything I put in my mouth. The carnivore diet gives me less symptoms than anything else, but it has been a real challenge too. My serum folate bottomed out as well and caused my neutrophils to crash. That landed me in the hospital in isolation for 8 days while the doctors tried to protect me from infection and figure out what was wrong. In my own research, I discovered that neutrophils require folate, so I asked the doctor to prescribe an injectable folic acid since I cannot take supplements. Since I started subcutaneous self injections, my neutrophils have remained normal. However, low folate seems to be very rare among people on a carnivore diet, even a strict one of only beef like you and I have followed. I suspect that gut health has a lot to do with it. I have severe GI problems stemming from celiac disease and other autoimmune illnesses. I have histamine intolerance as well which has affected my ability to eat beef multiple times. When I cannot eat beef, I resort to chicken which is low histamine. However, i have to cook a whole fresh chicken each day in water, simmer for three hours, pour off broth, remove liquid fat, drink broth, then eat all the skin along with dark meat to satiety. I cannot eat the breast because it is too lean. I cannot eat leftovers. It has to be fresh every day. I cannot eat organ meats either, as they are high in histamines and make me very sick as well. The only eggs I can eat are raw quail eggs, which I did for a year, but then the people I was buying them from stopped producing them. They have a special property in the raw whites that prevent mast cells from degranulating and they really made a difference in my ability to eat beef. Since I lost access to them, I have not been doing well with beef. Here is a study they did on them: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6060182/ Autoimmune illness really messes with the gastrointestinal system, and it can make figuring out what and how to eat very difficult. It sounds to me like you have some underlying health issue that is perhaps affecting you ability to benefit from the carnivore diet. I have low vitamin D as well and cannot take supplements of that either because they all give me migraines. I have nit yet tried an injectable, but plan to ask my doctor about that in the near future. This diet is not a panacea, and it definitely cannot fix autoimmune illness, but it can be a good tool for symptom management. I hope my answer is somewhat helpful as you try to move forward.
  
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