1. How long have you been eating a Zero Carb (No Plant Foods) diet?
2. What motivated you to try this way of eating? Weight? Health?
My weight loss stalled on a Low Carb High Fat Ketogenic diet, eating a mix of plant foods and animal foods. Then I saw the Andersen Family Interview that you posted here last year, and a light went on in my head.
3. How long did it take you to adapt to a Zero Carb diet, both physically and psychologically?
Since I was already very low carb, I didn’t notice much change when I switched to meat only. I did continue to crave many of my old plant foods for up to 6 months, but I don’t get the cravings any more even when around my old favorites.
4. What books or people were most influential in guiding you to this way of eating?
I have to list “The Big Fat Surprise” by Nina Teicholz as my current favorite and I think anybody who is thinking of going on an all meat diet should consider her evidence in the decision. I was really brought to low carb by Gary Taubes’ book “Good Calories, bad Calories” which is of course a classic. Unless a person has a scientific background they might be better served by reading his “follow up” book “Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It” which is really a condensation of the first book with a simplification of some of the technical language and a little bit of new information. I also like the work of Dr. Stephen Phinney whose book “The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living” is a jewel.
As for the meat only side of it I would recommend the 2 videos that I think clearly prove humans to be primarily evolved to eat meat which are first “The Search for the Perfect Human Diet” which I just found out can be watched on Hulu for free at this URL http://www.hulu.com/watch/691639
And a lecture by Dr. Barry Groves available free on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn5zdWucv6I
And finally a wonderful lecture by Georgia Ede MD on “The Risks and Benefits of Eating Plants” available on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdRBFiBWQZQ .
5. Do you eat only meat, or do you include eggs, cheese, and cream in your diet?
I eat meat, eggs, aged cheese, and butter. I do not drink any form of milk or cream. Though I think a moderate amount of cream is ok, it does have a carb per ounce and some protein so it can be “overdone” and it’s slight sweet taste could be a problem for some.
6. What percentage of your diet is beef versus other types of meats?
99% of the meat I eat is beef. It’s cheap available and the highest in fat percentage of the commonly available meats and I tolerate it very well. I occasionally have some pork and once every 2-3 months wind up eating some chicken. Fish is expensive, relatively low in fat and often of dubious origin (farm raised on a high omega-6 diet). Though I feel wild fish are quite healthy if supplemented with enough animal fat like butter or tallow, the logistics of acquiring it would require too much of my time and financial resources and I am doing fine on beef. I am planning to try my had a fishing at some point here in Galveston, TX and eat what I catch but between my new career as a Voice Actor and my RV and Motorcycle touring I just haven’t found the time to get out there.
7. When you eat beef, do you cook it rare, medium, or well done?
I rarely eat steak, usually only at restaurants when I’m traveling or eating out with friends, but when I do, I prefer it rare. I buy 3 lb chubs of 27% fat hamburger from my local Kroger which fortunately for me regularly puts them on sale for $5.99 to draw customers. I go every day that week and get my 2 allowed chubs and freeze them. I make a casserole with 2 lbs of hamburger mixed with 8 beaten eggs and laid in a casserole dish liberally slathered with butter then I cover it with 4 cups (about 1 lb) of grated Aged Cheddar cheese which I regularly get from Kroger in 2 lb blocks for $7.49 sometimes on sale for $6.49 (I stock up and freeze). I bake this at 325 for 30 minutes and cut into 6 squares. I eat 1 square every day for lunch. For those of you who are interested, this gives me 21 grams of protein in the hamburger, 9 grams of protein in the eggs and 18 grams of protein in the cheese for a total of 48 grams of protein at lunch.
For dinner I almost always eat about 10 ounces of a combination of all beef sausage and hotdogs. Both contain Offal which is “organ meat” which is higher in vitamins and minerals than steak, plus I eat another 3 ounces of Aged Cheddar Cheese. There are 40 grams of protein in the sausage and hot dogs and 21 grams in the cheese for a total of 61 grams of protein in the evening meal and 109 grams of protein for the day. Which is less than 1.5 kg of protein per kg of ideal body weight for me.
8. Do you add extra fat to your meat? (i.e. butter, lard, tallow)
When I have to go to a restaurant I always carry a small tub of unsalted whipped butter and add ¼ to ¾ teaspoon of it like it was whipped cream to every bite of any steak or other meat or fish I might consume.
9. Do you limit your meat consumption or do you eat until satisfied?
I have 3 rules: 1) I have 2 meals a day spaced 6 hours apart (usually 2PM and 8PM which works for me but I think any 6 hour or even 8 hour window would be fine); 2) I limit my protein to less than 1.5 grams per kilogram of ideal body weight; and 3) I try to be sure 70-80% of the calories from each meal come primarily from Saturated, monounsaturated and omega-3 fatty acids, avoiding omega-6 fatty acids as much as possible.
10. Do you eat liver or other organ meats? If so, how often?
Regularly in the form of hotdogs and sausage, think “Liverwurst”
11. Do you consume bone broth? If so, how often?
No, but I think it’s probably fine and quite healthy. Just remember a cup contains 7 grams of protein so someone who is a metabolically damaged as me would not tolerate “going crazy” with it.
12. How many meals do you eat per day on average?
Twice, spaced 6 hours apart, which gives me a daily Intermittent fast of 18 hours.
13. How much meat do you eat per day on average?
15 ounces of meat and sausage, 6 ounces of cheese and 1.3 eggs (or 4 ounces of egg)
14. Do you eat grass-fed/pasture-raised meat, or regular commercially produced meat?
Can’t afford grass-fed, but would eat it if I could. I’m retired on a fixed pension and love to travel and have a large house to maintain along with many hobbies. I choose to spend my money on that. I think the advantage of grass-fed, organic meat is highly over-rated, but someday when we have the data (probably not in my lifetime), I may be proven wrong.
15. Do you drink any beverages besides water? (i.e. coffee, tea)
I only drink water and carbonated mineral water.
16. Do you use salt?
The only thing I add a touch of salt to is the baking soda I use to brush my teeth. I do not add salt to any food.
17. Do you use spices?
Many of the sausages I eat have spices in them. Otherwise I don’t use them.
18. Do you take any supplements?
None since starting ZC 407 days ago.
19. How much money do you spend on food each month?
My lunch casserole costs $1.70 a serving. My 10 ounces hot dogs and sausage in the evening average $2.85 (I can often do better by stocking up. The Nolan Ryan All beef Frankfurters I usually eat are normally $4.99/14 oz but occasionally they go on sale for $1.99 with unlimited quantities, that’s when my freezer fills up). I can regularly find all beef sausage for $4/pound sometimes cheaper on sale. And even at regular price (which I rarely pay), my 3 ounces of Aged cheddar cheese in the evening costs $0.70. I have included the cost of the cheese and eggs in the casserole in the cost of the casserole so my total daily cost is $1.70 for casserole for lunch and $2.85 for my 10 ounces of sausage/hot dogs and $0.70 for the cheese in the evening. For a total daily cost of $5.25 or in a 30 day month $157.50.
When I’m out I almost always eat at McDonalds where I get a triple cheeseburger no bun, just meat and cheese which is 30 grams of protein, and off the breakfast a la carte menu – now served all day – I order a “round egg” (some McDonalds will only serve a “folded egg” after breakfast time), a sausage patty and a slice of white cheddar cheese which comes to 15 grams of protein for a total of 45 grams of protein for the meal which is $4.95 where I live.
20. Do you have any tips for making this diet more affordable?
Stock up when you find meat on sale and throw it in a freezer.
21. Do you exercise regularly? If so, how often and how vigorously?
I play tennis, both singles and doubles 2-5 times a week. Once a week I lift weights using the “Body by Science” protocol by Dr. Doug McGuff. More on that can be found on my website page here: http://www.borntoeatmeat.com/body-by-science.html
22. What benefits have you experienced since beginning a Zero Carb diet? (i.e. recovery from illness, overall health, body composition, exercise performance, hormonal, mental or psychological, etc.)
I think the biggest benefit is the self-respect and self-confidence I’ve gained since returning to my “high school” weight. I was fat for most of my life and that’s kind of like being a leper in our society. Most fat people feel like they have to be “extra nice” and suck up to people or no one would want to be around them. We’re always trying to do that “little extra” like pick up the check or work on that holiday instead of the other guy despite the fact we worked the last 3 holidays. Fat people often become “door mats” to try to get people to like them, I certainly did. This is beginning to fade (though not completely). It’s not that I now want fat people to act like that toward me, though I often detect them doing so, it’s just that I like to demand equal status to anyone I meet now and am very less likely to back down in an argument than when I was fat. I feel good about myself when I walk into a room. You can’t put a price on that.
My highest weight was around 280 lbs, and I am currently now at 180 lbs. You can read the details of the weight loss I have experienced by following first a low carb and now Zero Carb on my website here: http://www.borntoeatmeat.com/i-need-to-lose-100-pounds.html
My tennis game has improved. I wasn’t really sick or arthritic when I was fat so nothing to improve there.
I did have a recurring skin condition since childhood called hand eczema (dishidrotic eczema) where 2-3 times a year I would have a terrible itchy, blistering red rash break out on my hands and sometimes my feet and last for 4-6 weeks. I have not had an outbreak since going low carb and grain-free 4 years ago, so I can’t totally attribute it to Zero Carb.
Also there has been a dramatic improvement in my toenails which, since about the age of 30, have been thickened yellow and crumbly, a condition called tenia unguium (fungal toenail infection). This has almost completely cleared up and my toenails though a few still have some thickening which may be from scarring of the growth plates over the years have no yellow color and are not crumbly. You can actually see the pink flesh through them again which totally surprised me. Again the improvement predated Zero Carb, but has continued to improve on Zero Carb.
Also I have multiple aging spots common in people of English/Irish ancestry called Seborrheic Kerratosis which are raised, flat, usually round, moles with a “ground glass” texture that easily scrape off. Mine seem to be regressing in size and I am not developing new ones.
23. What do you enjoy most about eating a Zero Carb diet?
The simplicity. It frees me up to do so many other things not having to worry about preparing some fancy, exotic meal. I have begun a career as a voice actor producing Audiobooks in a 5’X7’ studio I built with my own hands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL3XBSAamWU My first Audiobook “Escape from Aliens”, read under my “stage name” of Somerset Hamilton is now selling well on Audible.com and in the iTunes store. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB9z8Wl0UTg
I had a blast doing the voices of a Navy SEAL and a female USAF Captain who get captured by aliens and encounter 18 other captive aliens and 5 alien captors all of whose voices I had to create. Not to mention the ship computer and 3 starport controllers.
I do the work on my own car and actually have a video I made on Replacing the Camshaft Position Sensor that has had 65,000 views on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3z43830FQQ .
I try to play the piano as much as possible . I did a Music video of my wife and autistic daughter feeding the ducks at our old house in Bayou Vista, TX with our cat having other plans in “Silent Movie” style and did the accompaniment on the piano myself totally improvising the Cole Porter song from memory using no music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7YKkBCM4o8
I’ve restored a 2003 Honda Shadow Motorcycle and have added a 140 dB horn, LED headlight, hard saddle bags with a cigarette lighter plug and 4 port USB charger. Still to come is a hard trunk and I am planning to take it on a 10 day solo motorcycle odyssey to New Mexico and Utah in July staying with friends and using a 1 man tent to camp in National and State parks along the way.
I’m currently planning to start “section hiking” the Appalachian trail next summer. I plan to start in Georgia and do 10 days eating only Pemmican and see how far I get then start there the next time I can find time to do some more hiking.
I was playing a lot of tennis tournament and actually got my ranking in my age group up to #5 in the state but I’ve cut back a lot as they have raised the entry fees to $38 for most tournaments and I just have other things I want to spend my money on like a ultralight 1 man tent and a big drone to fly with and take pictures of the Pelicans here in Galveston for a music video about them I’m thinking about creating. I have been a photographer all my life with my specialty of scenic landscapes.
I know it seems like this has little to do with your question but here is where I feel it fits in. I think the cause of the obesity epidemic in America is due to 4 major problems:
First, poor food choices. I think people choose high carbohydrate, low fat foods which in and of themselves are fattening (ZC solves this problem).
Second is “Addictive Eating”. Sugar and probably wheat and other plants like tobacco, coffee and tea are as addictive as cocaine or heroin. In my opinion these should be eliminated from a person’s diet because the best way to beat addiction to a substance is to give it up completely.
Third, habitual eating due to boredom. I think a lot of Americans are just bored because they are stuck in jobs they don’t like which don’t stimulate their minds or allow them to be creative. I think many people “console themselves” with sugar and big meals they don’t really want due to boredom and the stress of their situation. A Zero Carb diet makes it easier not to do this.
And Fourth, bad eating habits. All grazing animals are fat. Most Americans I know who are fat are “grazers” they have little snacks here and there and always get their 3 meals a day in. I think 1 or 2 meals a day is a much better eating schedule. Tim Noakes MD who I love recently got into trouble for saying the same thing. http://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/123305/if-you-eat-every-three-hours-you-are-addicted-to-food-tim-noakes/
In short if a person wants to avoid boredom they need to find a job or at least a hobby that lets them feel they’re being creative and have some control over their situation. Zero Carb, because it works so well with my twice a day eating schedule, allows me the freedom to do all the things I do without obsessing about food, riding the blood sugar rollercoaster that oftens give carb eaters the morning and mid afternoon drowsies unless they carb up again.
24. Do you have any advice for someone who is just beginning a Zero Carb diet?
One thing I’ve learned in my life is that consistency and discipline are the keys to success. I didn’t get to be a “Full Bird” Colonel in the Army without them. If you fall off the wagon, get right back on, don’t give up. Keep your eye on the goal. Hang a dress or pair of jeans you’d like to get back into where you’ll see it several times daily. Hang out with people on Facebook who are having success with ZC like you and me.
25. Are your friends and family supportive of your Zero Carb lifestyle? If not, how do you handle this?
Most of my friends and family are strongly addicted to sugar and a few to alcohol. I get the same treatment on the subject as if you were to tell your close college friend who you happen to meet at a reunion and who has become a daily alcohol drinker and is quite happy with it how good you feel because you’ve stopped drinking for a year, a lot of “polite smiles, let’s change the subject”. I think everyone should expect that. Only when they get desperate and see your success will people start asking you questions and become open to advice. You should expect the usual attacking questions when you first begin, “what about your Cholesterol?”, “Where will you get your vitamins”…etc. These fade over time with close family and friends and acceptance has replaced it with most of my close friends and family. I have convinced a few to try low carb, but not Zero Carb.
26. Is there anything you would like share about this way of eating that I have not already asked you?
I’ve probably run my mouth too much already. First, I’d like to say to anyone following a Zero Carb diet: I hate seeing my 11 years of college, medical school and Family practice medical residency training wasted. Please feel free to tag me on Facebook in any of the Zero Carb groups if there is a medical issue or other issue you think I can help with.
For those Zero Carb groups that do not recommend limiting protein, I would say that if you have not damaged your liver and pancreas yet with years of carb, sugar or alcohol abuse, I think this approach can work fine and is certainly much healthier than any plant based diet and works very well for many people. I severely damaged my system with 61 years of carbohydrate, sugar (I was addicted to candy bars) and a little alcohol (never really a long term problem for me).
My medical opinion is that if you’re not losing the weight you want, your triglycerides don’t come down under 80 and your Hemoglobin A1c doesn’t come down under 5.5% after 6-12 months on the unlimited protein program you should consider restricting protein as I do and follow the markers I indicated and see if they don’t move in the right direction.
But I don’t claim to be infallible or all knowing and I’m not some kind of power tripper who wants to manage other people’s lives. Whatever your stance on Zero Carb, I will support you. And in forums where this is an issue, I will try to restrict myself addressing the Zero Carb medical question without bringing up the protein issue, as I know what a hot button issue it can become. Both unlimited protein Zero Carb and Keto Zero Carb have so much more in common than differences that I hate to see all the anger this issue can generate.
I hope we will all be able to begin treating each other with respect like we were friends but Methodists and Presbyterians having similar but slightly different dogmas but respecting each other and trying to be considerate about any differences.
Please visit my “Interviews” and “Testimonials” pages linked at the top of this website to read the stories of other short and long term Zero Carb veterans.
If you are interested in meeting others who practice an All-Meat diet, please feel free to join us in the Facebook group “Principia Carnivora” for support.
Dr. Mabry also has his own Facebook group now called Zero Carb Doc.
So much knowledge and information in this interview!!
Thanks Esmee! On May 24, 2016 10:50 AM, “Eat Meat. Drink Water.” wrote:
> esmeelafleur posted: ” 1. How long have you been eating a Zero Carb (No > Plant Foods) diet? 407 days. 2. What motivated you to try this way of > eating? Weight? Health? My weight loss stalled on a Low Carb High Fat > Ketogenic diet, eating a mix of plant foods and anima” >
Thanks so much Dr. Mabry for such a comprehensive and fascinating interview! I appreciate your links and your thoughts about protein.
This is one interview I’m going to print out and study carefully.
Do you have any other presence on the web, like a blog? [I don’t do Facebook].
As always, many thanks Esmee for posting this fantastic interview.
There are two links to Dr. Mabry’s website in the interview. One is where he mentions his weight loss under the question about benefits experienced on Zero Carb.
One of the very best interveiws i have read here. Thankyou. So interesting!
This was so helpful! Thank you Dr. Mabry. I appreciate your comments about respecting each other for the small differences we have for this WOL. It doesn’t feel good when reading posts for inspiration, and seeing the argumentative, often unkind posts of a few. Loved this info! Thank you!
Thank you so much to Dr. Paul Mabry for sharing about his life.
For me this is one of the best interviews here because of so many interesting details he has gone through. Lot of inspiration and motivation.
I liked specially when Dr. P. M. mentioned how much self respect and self-confidence he gained from losing weight.
Also i like very much his simple and practical approach on eating twice simple meals a day.
Thank you Dr Mabry, great interview. Do you use any spices in your casserole or sausages?
He answered this question in the interview. There are spices in the sausage and hot dogs he eats, but he does not added any spices to anything else.
Sorry Esmee, completely missed that question and answer!
This is the best personal success story on here IMO
About the hamburger casserole, do you brown the hamburger first before adding the eggs?
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Great reead thanks
Hi Dr Mabry Thank you for paving the way with courage and discipline. I’m a 62 year old male and now 17 months carnivore. So far so good but wondering about two negatives shaky hands when holding something and lacking the emotional self control I used to have before carnivore diet. My 35year vitiligo and hypothyroidism seem to be slowly improving. Aside from risk of bacteria would raw meat be a further advantage. Are you aware of any long term carnivore studies.,or carnivore centenarians?John
I’m not aware of any carnivore centenarians, but some people (including myself) feel significantly better on raw meat. I think it’s a very individual thing, but here are my reasons for eating my meat raw: